Reptilian humanoid
Archives
*Nextel ringtones Talk:Reptilian humanoid/Delete
*Abbey Diaz Talk:Reptilian humanoid/Archive
mmmmm....very interesting...
If anyone actually wants to check out some serious stuff concerning the whole 'reptilian' arena before they jump on the ol' 'that can't be true' bandwagon, then there's a video interview with Zulu shaman Credo Mutwa - available from the Bridge Of Love Publications website. I agree with a lot of what Khranus says about 'writing off' stuff b4 checking it out - smells like fear to me.......
:I think Khranus should email Jimbo and ask to be allowed back. I also think the the pro-skeptic bias of the wikipedia can be circumvented by folks like him behaving in a particularly respectable manner so as to minimize the prejudice against them when they provide their Free ringtones Cite your sources/cited Majo Mills Verifiability/verifiabile informations. Mosquito ringtone Sam Spade/Sam Sabrina Martins http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit§ion=new '''Spade''' 19:23, 1 Jun 2004
Yep - It is a shame to lose people like Khranus from the discussion. I also accept that Wiki want to exert SOME control over the nature of expression on the site (I'm guessing from the 'banned user' page that the ban was about so-called 'bad language' etc? Although no specific reason seemed to be given?) So - if you're out there Khranus, how about it? Nextel ringtones Musicman/Musicman 18:19, Jun 4, 2004
:he became abusive in his talk page communications, and simultaneously engaged in edit wars involving some highly dubious additions regarding dolphins conducting fusion within their heads. Abbey Diaz Sam Spade/Sam Free ringtones http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit§ion=new '''Spade''' 22:52, 11 Jun 2004
"Greys" as Dinosauroids
I think it's worth mentioning on this page that many conspiracy theoriests claim that "Greys" are actually reptiles because of their similarity to paleontologist Dr. Dave Russel's half-serious, hypothetical "Dinosauroid" which is essentually a humanoid descendant of the Troodontids specifically, the genus ''Stenonychosaurus''.
It should also be noted that not all believe these are "aliens". Many will refer to supposed myths that the subterranean Majo Mills Nagas could fly around in metallic disks which they kept hangared beneath the Earth's surface. The idea, here, is that (non-Avian) Cingular Ringtones Dinosaurs have a several million year headstart on humans, and therefore greater technology, and did not go completely extinct but instead retreated into the "shift scrutiny Underworld" to escape the nuclear winter caused by the meteorite that destroyed their contemporaries.
I could go on and on. Do some research for yourself and you will find these theories thoroughly fascinating. Insane, nutty, implausible, and usually rather juvenile, but fascinating nonetheless.
iranian government 209.206.169.222/209.206.169.222 10:09, 23 Jul 2004
:Care to edit? ;) person read Sam Spade/Sam bahaji is http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit§ion=new '''Spade''' 17:15, 23 Jul 2004
::I've had quite a bit of trouble pinning down the original source for Russel's "dinoman", so I'd have to devote some time to research before even attempting an edit. Also, there's quite a bit material to cover in the whole "dinosaurs/reptiles as aliens" issue. In most of the reading I've done, a lot of it has to do with folklore and mythology of the "Underworld" and the psuedo-reptilian inhabitants therein (such as the aforemention Nagas). This sort of an issue would probably require it's own page, and should probably be allied more with UFO-ology than a general "reptilian humanoid" article which I think would probably work better as a categorized listing of lizard-men in fiction, games, mythology, etc.
::I mean, a page on reptilian humanoids is hard to find on the net. The one here could list everything from the "Cardassians" on Star Trek, to the Kremlings in Donkey Kong Country, to the Nagas in Indian mythology. It would be a useful resource.
::Anyway, I think this merits more discussion before any definitive action is taken but the article as it exists now suffers from two main problems: (1) it appears to be about reptiloids in general, from videogames, UFOlogy, literature, folklore, etc., but instead focusses almost solely on the UFOlogy aspect of it, and (2) is not nearly thorough enough in the psychology and "research" (if you can call it that) behind the UFOlogy angle.
::I would personally suggest making this article an archive of "reptiloids" such as the similar articles concerning species in folklore and fantasy-fiction (covering everything from Star Trek to Donkey Kong to actual mythology, as mentioned above), and then devoting a seperate page to "Reptiloids in UFOlogy" or "Aliens as Reptiles" or "Reptilian Conspiracy Theories" or something like that, because it is an interesting (and disturbingly widespread) sociological phenomena.
::policy welterweight Corvun/Corvun 02:33, 24 Jul 2004
:::I disagree w you on a few things, but would ask you to hormone two Be Bold. Just don't delete useful content, and lets see what you have in mind. democracy served Sam Spade/Sam function similar http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit§ion=new '''Spade''' 02:43, 24 Jul 2004
::::I'm curious - what is it, particularly, that you disagree with? I'm asking mainly because I'm unsure of which course of action would be best. Expanding the list of reptiloids and non-UFOlogy/Conspiracy content, or adding more depth to the UFOlogy/Conspiracy aspect itself? I'm somewhat new to Wikipedia, and although I'm certainly tempted to marketeers claim Be Bold, I don't want to end up starting an edit war or make things excessively complicated if it turns out that the UFOlogy/Conspiracy angle deserves a seperate page.
::::or yoga Corvun/Corvun 03:18, 24 Jul 2004
:::::I'm not convinced about there needing to be a second page to focus on the alien dinosauroids angle, w this page being focused on fiction. As far as an edit war, I wouldn't worry. The only guy who had extreme feelings about reptilians got banned for being a bit too agro (see above). I don't think anybody else is gonna get very emotional about it. I guess my advice would be to keep everything on this page until its clear there is enough info to warrant a second page, but if you really want a separate page I'd like to see what it looks like :). consultant we Sam Spade/Sam growing confidence http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit§ion=new '''Spade''' 00:19, 26 Jul 2004
Philip K. Dick, TLE, Meth, Branton
Please put on your tin-foil hats and fasten your seatbelts:
:''Many people consider that Dick was suffering from psychosis or bipolar disorder at the time he reported these experiences, and he is known to have had psychotic symptoms.''
#There is some debate on this topic. Lawrence Sutin (Dick's biographer), and Eve LaPlante (TLE medical writer) suggest that are ballets temporal lobe vikings devaughn epilepsy provides the best clinical explanation for Dick's behavior, not their wards bipolar disorder/BPD. Accodring to one of Dick's wives, there is some evidence that he was misdiagnosed with another cut bipolar disorder/BPD. It might be interesting to add TLE to his section along with few complications bipolar disorder/BPD, just for clarity. Oh, and let's not forget that Dick was taking companies elsewhere methamphetamines, too.
#Strange as it sounds, there appears to be some kind of anecdotal correlation between proposed rules methamphetamine/meth use and reported Reptoid (or lizard) delusions. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author=Branton/002-8543800-3240010, one of the popular Reptoid conspiracy writers, claims that, ''"...the reptilians promote the use of drugs especially methamphetamine and crank..."'' You might want to do a search on this strange gentleman and add him to your Modern Claims and/or conspiracy sections. Of course, it looks like Branton stole everything from but challenging Edward Bulwer-Lytton. I'm not sure why methamphetamine/meth keeps popping up in relation to Reptoids, but it does. Viriditas/Viriditas 07:36, 9 Sep 2004
:::::Branton is a decent researcher but has some incorrect ideas based upon disinformation which he took as fact. The connection between meth and Reptilians probably has to do with the fact that Draco warriors often ingest methamphetamines, as do US Air Force pilots, before combat, to increase agility, perception, speed, etc. Edward Bulwer-Lytton was basically writing from what he knew from occult secret societies. The information was not totally accurate. Same goes for Maurice Doreal. The Illuminati are very real, and are currently manipulating the world toward a New World Order based upon Draconian beliefs. I wish it weren't true, but I can't deny reality, history or my own experience. For accurate information on the Draco and other alien races, refer to Stewart Swerdlow at http://www.stewartswerdlow.com For proof that the Illuminati exist and that the New World Order is a very real threat, refer to www.prisoplanet.com, www.infowars.com, and www.propagandamatrix.com Since most of this information is difficult for most people to swallow, I would suggest beginning with 9/11, the Road to TyrannyAlex Jones' excellent film on government-sponsored terrorism. You can see it for free at http://propagandamatrix.com/multimedia_priorknowledge_911roadtotyranny.html. Truth is indeed far stranger, but also far more realistic than fiction. This is the way governments always behaved throughout history, except for a few rare exceptions. It is a delusion to believe that there are not elitist royals controlling as much as they can today.
::::::Thank you for sharing your opinion, but his page should be used for discussing the article and commenting on how to improve the page. It should ''not'' be used as a personal, political soapbox, or for trying to convince people of pet theories. Wikipedia policy is that all articles should have a neutral point of view. I kindly suggest that you study that page. Viriditas/Viriditas 17:06, 9 Sep 2004
Joking/Ambiguous
There is no ambiguity in the references I moved to this section. These were statements not intended to be taken seriously, or using 'reptilian' as a metaphor for 'evil and slimy'. DJ Clayworth/DJ Clayworth 16:46, 16 Sep 2004
Also while I am here "These claims are not given credence by most people" is not POV, it is simply true. I didn't say the claims weren't true, I just said that hardly anybody believes them, which is absolutely factual. DJ Clayworth/DJ Clayworth 16:51, 16 Sep 2004
You can't be absolutely sure whether they were metaphor, symbolism, or symbolic jokes. I know how the Illuminati think, and from my experience they like to 'joke' in this manner.
Those claims are not even known to most people, so they cannot be said to be 'not given credence'. (unsigned)
"I know how the Illuminati think". Lets get back to reality. This was a joke press release. Read the article. Read the news articles.
By the way, are you Khranus? If so, please let us know now. It will save a lot of trouble. DJ Clayworth/DJ Clayworth 18:07, 16 Sep 2004
Also, even among the people who know about these theories, most give them no credence. DJ Clayworth/DJ Clayworth 18:08, 16 Sep 2004
:"Most give them no credence". Great for them. They probably can't handle such a weighty reality, or simply are ignorant to what is going on. As I said, 'joke' press releases usually contain meaningful symbolism when coming from major political parties. Also, the Bushnell incident was not a 'joke' press release. It was an actual incident, and Bushnell warned people that he was serious, refusing to apologise for his statement. As I said, he was forced to resign as the head of the ABA.
:::If you demand to be stubborn and keep the latter article labelled 'joking', go ahead. I must warn you, however, that attempting to deny reality will not change it. Accepting what is going on empowers you with the oppurtunity to change it.
Duly noted. DJ Clayworth/DJ Clayworth 19:37, 16 Sep 2004
129.173.208.180
Stop promoting edit wars by reverting valid edits. You also seem fond of fabricating claims, and I suspect you are copying them from some other authors without citation. Either cite your references ("Leary was a CIA operative for MKULTRA") or continue to get reverted. Viriditas/Viriditas 02:06, 19 Sep 2004
:Leary was certainly an operative of MKULTRA. This was documented. He wouldn't have had access to LSD at that time for research otherwise. Harvard was a major centre for MKULTRA experimentation. This is public information, available from the Library of Congress, or from www.trance-formation.com (on CD) as part of the MKULTRA documents...His only claim to the contrary is that they didn't pay him for his work. This was very likely untrue, for obvious reasons, though financial records between Leary and the CIA are not currently available to the public. I didn't revert 'valid edits'. I'm not promoting 'edit wars'. I don't see where you get this idea User:129.173.208.155/129.173.208.155
::You are misinformed. It was LSD researcher Humphry Osmond who had connections to the CIA and M16, not Leary.[http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/328/7441/713] And, that is documented. Leary had access to LSD at the time because it was '''legal'''. I suggest you try to check your facts before editing these pages again, and please, get get a handle, log in, learn to indent, and sign your comments. Viriditas/Viriditas 00:52, 28 Sep 2004
Middle East
:''In one of the apocryphal books purporting to be the lost Book of Jasher, a serpent race is described. ''
Which Sefer haYashar? The Sefer haYashar (midrash)/midrash or Book of Jasher (Pseudo-Jasher)/Pseudo-Jasher? They're both later forgeries.
:''The Israelites recorded that the former inhabitants of Canaan were "Serpents", "Rephaim", "Nephilim_(Bible)/Nephilim" and "Anakim". ''
None of those words mean 'serpent', as any lexicon of Biblical Hebrew will tell you.
:''This could refer to the Sumerian-influenced worship of serpents and dragon-like creatures which pervaded the Canaanite people before the Israelites entered that region.''
On what grounds do we make these bold assertions about Canaanite religion? Hmm? Are there any academic sources we could cite, perhaps? Mirv/—No-OneUser talk:Mirv/ ''Jones'' Emailuser/Mirv/(m) 21:52, 24 Oct 2004
I don't know which book of Yashar was referred to; the original article just said "the Book of Jasher". If I had to guess, I'd say Pseudo-Jasher. But I haven't read either one. I didn't add the stuff on Canaanites, but I couldn't vouch for them _not_ ever being referred to as serpents, or for them not worshipping serpents. -Ben Standeven
crazed hacking apart of article
removing large portions of an article without concensus in talk is not acceptable. It is also pointless, since much of it will be replaced. Of course the article is far from perfect, but deleting half the page isn't helping anything. Sam Spade/Sam http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit§ion=new '''Spade''' 22:00, 24 Oct 2004
:I explained my deletions in the edit summaries. Which of them do you dispute? Mirv/—No-OneUser talk:Mirv/ ''Jones'' Emailuser/Mirv/(m) 22:05, 24 Oct 2004
I dispute mass deletions of text w/o a prior history of having communicated in talk. Sam Spade/Sam http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit§ion=new '''Spade''' 22:09, 24 Oct 2004
:OK, the byzantium bit is an improvement. As for the rest of the mess you've been making of things here, isn't there a general understanding on the wiki that removed text is to be replaced w improved text? Also, you need to have been discussing these matters here in talk for some time before demanding references and deleting huge portions of the article. People need time to respond. Check the edit history, these arn't my contributions your deleting. Sam Spade/Sam http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit§ion=new '''Spade''' 22:16, 24 Oct 2004
:''I dispute mass deletions of text w/o a prior history of having communicated in talk.'' — That's nice; I dispute putting unsourced, irrelevant loads of bullshit into articles. However, though you didn't ask nicely, I'll explain:
:'''http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Reptilian_humanoid&diff=6834276&oldid=6833809''':
Throughout the world, in apparently unconnected societies, the belief pervades that a Reptilian race lives beneath the Earth and interacts with the surface.
:This much is true and could be restored.
In most cases another race, tall and "Nordic" in appearance, is described. These were the "Elves" of European lore.
:They appear only in some Germanic folklore and mythology (which lacks reptoids, note), and this description isn't entirely accurate; see Elf. In any case it's irrelevant.
The Reptilians were often described as having a caste hierarchy, in which the highest caste was winged.
:Weasel passive. Who describes them this way?
This correlates with information from current abductees, contactees and former government employees who have disclosed information regarding alien interaction with Earth-governments.
:This is unsourced conspiroid bullshit.
Many ancient peoples worshipped a serpent-God(dess) called El or Hel, which was considered the God-Goddess of the Underworld, the Moon, and Venus.
:What nonsense. See El (god) and Hel (goddess). Hel was the Norse goddess of the underworld, true, but not a reptilian AFAIK.
These three locations (underground, the Moon, and Venus) are all described by abductees, former covert government employees, and the like, as being major bases for a reptilian species from the Draco star system who have been involved with this planet for at least two million years.
:More unsourced conspiroid BS.
:'''http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Reptilian_humanoid&diff=6834644&oldid=6834300'''
See http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Reptilian_humanoid&diff=6834300&oldid=6834276. The whole thing is nonsensical. Mirv/—No-OneUser talk:Mirv/ ''Jones'' Emailuser/Mirv/(m) 22:24, 24 Oct 2004
:http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Reptilian_humanoid&diff=6834875&oldid=6834703 everything from "A Nordic race. . ." onward:
None of this explains how it is in any way relevant to the subject of the article; it's nothing more than an unsourced collection of vague rumors and "legends" from Indian history. Mirv/—No-OneUser talk:Mirv/ ''Jones'' Emailuser/Mirv/(m) 22:24, 24 Oct 2004
As for this:
:''isn't there a general understanding on the wiki that removed text is to be replaced w improved text?''
Unsourced nonsense can be removed to talk for improvement at any time. Generally the author (and I understand that you didn't write much or any of this) is expected to be able to provide references for what he writes; if someone else wants to put the text back, they should be able to come up with references for it.
:''Also, you need to have been discussing these matters here in talk for some time before demanding references and deleting huge portions of the article.''
Since when? I saw stuff that was bogus; I removed stuff that was bogus; I asked for sources and references. If you want to put it back you are welcome to take responsibility for it; that includes citing sources and providing references. Mirv/—No-OneUser talk:Mirv/ ''Jones'' Emailuser/Mirv/(m) 22:24, 24 Oct 2004
Pythagoras
Since you're so intent on having the references to Pythagoras in the article, I expect you can provide references for all of this. What were these "events relating to serpents", who reported them, and what does the Python have to do with all this? I also recommend reading the comments by Muriel Gottrop and The Anome on the Talk:Reptilian humanoid/Archive/archive. Mirv/—No-OneUser talk:Mirv/ ''Jones'' Emailuser/Mirv/(m) 22:26, 24 Oct 2004
Spacecraft
:''Ancient Sanscrit texts also refer to spacecraft and aircraft called Vimana. Nuclear debris has been found in regions said to be destroyed by 'the gods' in Kashmir and other locations throughout the Indian peninsula.''
Since you're also intent on reinserting this, I suppose you can a: provide a reference and b: explain what on earth this has to do with the topic of the article, i.e. reptilian humanoids. Its relevance is not at all apparent to the average reader. Mirv/—No-OneUser talk:Mirv/ ''Jones'' Emailuser/Mirv/(m) 22:28, 24 Oct 2004
Clean the ancient part
I guess that a great deal of the ancient references are fabricated or stretched.
Can you mark clearly what parts we are sure that some ancient people believe?
:I actually don't know much about this aspect, my knowledge is mainly in regards to Nazi mysticism concepts of Hitler riding in UFO's w reptiloids under the antartic. My objections were to mirv removing 1/2 the article before others could come up w their facts. If anyone wants references as to the whole "underground/moonbase nazi ufo's w reptiloid friends" aspect, I can cite plenty of books for that. Sam Spade/Sam http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit§ion=new '''Spade''' 14:37, 25 Oct 2004
::Yes, but most of those books cite the same source. Anyhoo, Mirv has been doing a pretty good job maintaining this page in the wake of Khranus/Khranus' edits. User:Viriditas/Viriditas 20:40, 16 Nov 2004
Neofacism
Just out of curiosity, why are David Icke's views considered newfacist? While I certainly don't believe what he says, I haven't seen any facist agenda. User:66.90.158.156/66.90.158.156
: Have a look at his book, "And the Truth Shall Set You Free". It's a 491 page conspiratorial rant in defense of the "veracity" of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Icke has also been associated with neofascist groups and people (Ernst Zundel), and blames society's problems on an alleged Jewish conspiracy. This is standard, neofascist party line. Sadly, Icke attempted to co-opt the Green party before people caught on to what he was really about. Viriditas/Viriditas / User_talk:Viriditas/Talk 19:45, 30 Jan 2005
*Nextel ringtones Talk:Reptilian humanoid/Delete
*Abbey Diaz Talk:Reptilian humanoid/Archive
mmmmm....very interesting...
If anyone actually wants to check out some serious stuff concerning the whole 'reptilian' arena before they jump on the ol' 'that can't be true' bandwagon, then there's a video interview with Zulu shaman Credo Mutwa - available from the Bridge Of Love Publications website. I agree with a lot of what Khranus says about 'writing off' stuff b4 checking it out - smells like fear to me.......
:I think Khranus should email Jimbo and ask to be allowed back. I also think the the pro-skeptic bias of the wikipedia can be circumvented by folks like him behaving in a particularly respectable manner so as to minimize the prejudice against them when they provide their Free ringtones Cite your sources/cited Majo Mills Verifiability/verifiabile informations. Mosquito ringtone Sam Spade/Sam Sabrina Martins http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit§ion=new '''Spade''' 19:23, 1 Jun 2004
Yep - It is a shame to lose people like Khranus from the discussion. I also accept that Wiki want to exert SOME control over the nature of expression on the site (I'm guessing from the 'banned user' page that the ban was about so-called 'bad language' etc? Although no specific reason seemed to be given?) So - if you're out there Khranus, how about it? Nextel ringtones Musicman/Musicman 18:19, Jun 4, 2004
:he became abusive in his talk page communications, and simultaneously engaged in edit wars involving some highly dubious additions regarding dolphins conducting fusion within their heads. Abbey Diaz Sam Spade/Sam Free ringtones http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit§ion=new '''Spade''' 22:52, 11 Jun 2004
"Greys" as Dinosauroids
I think it's worth mentioning on this page that many conspiracy theoriests claim that "Greys" are actually reptiles because of their similarity to paleontologist Dr. Dave Russel's half-serious, hypothetical "Dinosauroid" which is essentually a humanoid descendant of the Troodontids specifically, the genus ''Stenonychosaurus''.
It should also be noted that not all believe these are "aliens". Many will refer to supposed myths that the subterranean Majo Mills Nagas could fly around in metallic disks which they kept hangared beneath the Earth's surface. The idea, here, is that (non-Avian) Cingular Ringtones Dinosaurs have a several million year headstart on humans, and therefore greater technology, and did not go completely extinct but instead retreated into the "shift scrutiny Underworld" to escape the nuclear winter caused by the meteorite that destroyed their contemporaries.
I could go on and on. Do some research for yourself and you will find these theories thoroughly fascinating. Insane, nutty, implausible, and usually rather juvenile, but fascinating nonetheless.
iranian government 209.206.169.222/209.206.169.222 10:09, 23 Jul 2004
:Care to edit? ;) person read Sam Spade/Sam bahaji is http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit§ion=new '''Spade''' 17:15, 23 Jul 2004
::I've had quite a bit of trouble pinning down the original source for Russel's "dinoman", so I'd have to devote some time to research before even attempting an edit. Also, there's quite a bit material to cover in the whole "dinosaurs/reptiles as aliens" issue. In most of the reading I've done, a lot of it has to do with folklore and mythology of the "Underworld" and the psuedo-reptilian inhabitants therein (such as the aforemention Nagas). This sort of an issue would probably require it's own page, and should probably be allied more with UFO-ology than a general "reptilian humanoid" article which I think would probably work better as a categorized listing of lizard-men in fiction, games, mythology, etc.
::I mean, a page on reptilian humanoids is hard to find on the net. The one here could list everything from the "Cardassians" on Star Trek, to the Kremlings in Donkey Kong Country, to the Nagas in Indian mythology. It would be a useful resource.
::Anyway, I think this merits more discussion before any definitive action is taken but the article as it exists now suffers from two main problems: (1) it appears to be about reptiloids in general, from videogames, UFOlogy, literature, folklore, etc., but instead focusses almost solely on the UFOlogy aspect of it, and (2) is not nearly thorough enough in the psychology and "research" (if you can call it that) behind the UFOlogy angle.
::I would personally suggest making this article an archive of "reptiloids" such as the similar articles concerning species in folklore and fantasy-fiction (covering everything from Star Trek to Donkey Kong to actual mythology, as mentioned above), and then devoting a seperate page to "Reptiloids in UFOlogy" or "Aliens as Reptiles" or "Reptilian Conspiracy Theories" or something like that, because it is an interesting (and disturbingly widespread) sociological phenomena.
::policy welterweight Corvun/Corvun 02:33, 24 Jul 2004
:::I disagree w you on a few things, but would ask you to hormone two Be Bold. Just don't delete useful content, and lets see what you have in mind. democracy served Sam Spade/Sam function similar http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit§ion=new '''Spade''' 02:43, 24 Jul 2004
::::I'm curious - what is it, particularly, that you disagree with? I'm asking mainly because I'm unsure of which course of action would be best. Expanding the list of reptiloids and non-UFOlogy/Conspiracy content, or adding more depth to the UFOlogy/Conspiracy aspect itself? I'm somewhat new to Wikipedia, and although I'm certainly tempted to marketeers claim Be Bold, I don't want to end up starting an edit war or make things excessively complicated if it turns out that the UFOlogy/Conspiracy angle deserves a seperate page.
::::or yoga Corvun/Corvun 03:18, 24 Jul 2004
:::::I'm not convinced about there needing to be a second page to focus on the alien dinosauroids angle, w this page being focused on fiction. As far as an edit war, I wouldn't worry. The only guy who had extreme feelings about reptilians got banned for being a bit too agro (see above). I don't think anybody else is gonna get very emotional about it. I guess my advice would be to keep everything on this page until its clear there is enough info to warrant a second page, but if you really want a separate page I'd like to see what it looks like :). consultant we Sam Spade/Sam growing confidence http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit§ion=new '''Spade''' 00:19, 26 Jul 2004
Philip K. Dick, TLE, Meth, Branton
Please put on your tin-foil hats and fasten your seatbelts:
:''Many people consider that Dick was suffering from psychosis or bipolar disorder at the time he reported these experiences, and he is known to have had psychotic symptoms.''
#There is some debate on this topic. Lawrence Sutin (Dick's biographer), and Eve LaPlante (TLE medical writer) suggest that are ballets temporal lobe vikings devaughn epilepsy provides the best clinical explanation for Dick's behavior, not their wards bipolar disorder/BPD. Accodring to one of Dick's wives, there is some evidence that he was misdiagnosed with another cut bipolar disorder/BPD. It might be interesting to add TLE to his section along with few complications bipolar disorder/BPD, just for clarity. Oh, and let's not forget that Dick was taking companies elsewhere methamphetamines, too.
#Strange as it sounds, there appears to be some kind of anecdotal correlation between proposed rules methamphetamine/meth use and reported Reptoid (or lizard) delusions. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author=Branton/002-8543800-3240010, one of the popular Reptoid conspiracy writers, claims that, ''"...the reptilians promote the use of drugs especially methamphetamine and crank..."'' You might want to do a search on this strange gentleman and add him to your Modern Claims and/or conspiracy sections. Of course, it looks like Branton stole everything from but challenging Edward Bulwer-Lytton. I'm not sure why methamphetamine/meth keeps popping up in relation to Reptoids, but it does. Viriditas/Viriditas 07:36, 9 Sep 2004
:::::Branton is a decent researcher but has some incorrect ideas based upon disinformation which he took as fact. The connection between meth and Reptilians probably has to do with the fact that Draco warriors often ingest methamphetamines, as do US Air Force pilots, before combat, to increase agility, perception, speed, etc. Edward Bulwer-Lytton was basically writing from what he knew from occult secret societies. The information was not totally accurate. Same goes for Maurice Doreal. The Illuminati are very real, and are currently manipulating the world toward a New World Order based upon Draconian beliefs. I wish it weren't true, but I can't deny reality, history or my own experience. For accurate information on the Draco and other alien races, refer to Stewart Swerdlow at http://www.stewartswerdlow.com For proof that the Illuminati exist and that the New World Order is a very real threat, refer to www.prisoplanet.com, www.infowars.com, and www.propagandamatrix.com Since most of this information is difficult for most people to swallow, I would suggest beginning with 9/11, the Road to TyrannyAlex Jones' excellent film on government-sponsored terrorism. You can see it for free at http://propagandamatrix.com/multimedia_priorknowledge_911roadtotyranny.html. Truth is indeed far stranger, but also far more realistic than fiction. This is the way governments always behaved throughout history, except for a few rare exceptions. It is a delusion to believe that there are not elitist royals controlling as much as they can today.
::::::Thank you for sharing your opinion, but his page should be used for discussing the article and commenting on how to improve the page. It should ''not'' be used as a personal, political soapbox, or for trying to convince people of pet theories. Wikipedia policy is that all articles should have a neutral point of view. I kindly suggest that you study that page. Viriditas/Viriditas 17:06, 9 Sep 2004
Joking/Ambiguous
There is no ambiguity in the references I moved to this section. These were statements not intended to be taken seriously, or using 'reptilian' as a metaphor for 'evil and slimy'. DJ Clayworth/DJ Clayworth 16:46, 16 Sep 2004
Also while I am here "These claims are not given credence by most people" is not POV, it is simply true. I didn't say the claims weren't true, I just said that hardly anybody believes them, which is absolutely factual. DJ Clayworth/DJ Clayworth 16:51, 16 Sep 2004
You can't be absolutely sure whether they were metaphor, symbolism, or symbolic jokes. I know how the Illuminati think, and from my experience they like to 'joke' in this manner.
Those claims are not even known to most people, so they cannot be said to be 'not given credence'. (unsigned)
"I know how the Illuminati think". Lets get back to reality. This was a joke press release. Read the article. Read the news articles.
By the way, are you Khranus? If so, please let us know now. It will save a lot of trouble. DJ Clayworth/DJ Clayworth 18:07, 16 Sep 2004
Also, even among the people who know about these theories, most give them no credence. DJ Clayworth/DJ Clayworth 18:08, 16 Sep 2004
:"Most give them no credence". Great for them. They probably can't handle such a weighty reality, or simply are ignorant to what is going on. As I said, 'joke' press releases usually contain meaningful symbolism when coming from major political parties. Also, the Bushnell incident was not a 'joke' press release. It was an actual incident, and Bushnell warned people that he was serious, refusing to apologise for his statement. As I said, he was forced to resign as the head of the ABA.
:::If you demand to be stubborn and keep the latter article labelled 'joking', go ahead. I must warn you, however, that attempting to deny reality will not change it. Accepting what is going on empowers you with the oppurtunity to change it.
Duly noted. DJ Clayworth/DJ Clayworth 19:37, 16 Sep 2004
129.173.208.180
Stop promoting edit wars by reverting valid edits. You also seem fond of fabricating claims, and I suspect you are copying them from some other authors without citation. Either cite your references ("Leary was a CIA operative for MKULTRA") or continue to get reverted. Viriditas/Viriditas 02:06, 19 Sep 2004
:Leary was certainly an operative of MKULTRA. This was documented. He wouldn't have had access to LSD at that time for research otherwise. Harvard was a major centre for MKULTRA experimentation. This is public information, available from the Library of Congress, or from www.trance-formation.com (on CD) as part of the MKULTRA documents...His only claim to the contrary is that they didn't pay him for his work. This was very likely untrue, for obvious reasons, though financial records between Leary and the CIA are not currently available to the public. I didn't revert 'valid edits'. I'm not promoting 'edit wars'. I don't see where you get this idea User:129.173.208.155/129.173.208.155
::You are misinformed. It was LSD researcher Humphry Osmond who had connections to the CIA and M16, not Leary.[http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/328/7441/713] And, that is documented. Leary had access to LSD at the time because it was '''legal'''. I suggest you try to check your facts before editing these pages again, and please, get get a handle, log in, learn to indent, and sign your comments. Viriditas/Viriditas 00:52, 28 Sep 2004
Middle East
:''In one of the apocryphal books purporting to be the lost Book of Jasher, a serpent race is described. ''
Which Sefer haYashar? The Sefer haYashar (midrash)/midrash or Book of Jasher (Pseudo-Jasher)/Pseudo-Jasher? They're both later forgeries.
:''The Israelites recorded that the former inhabitants of Canaan were "Serpents", "Rephaim", "Nephilim_(Bible)/Nephilim" and "Anakim". ''
None of those words mean 'serpent', as any lexicon of Biblical Hebrew will tell you.
:''This could refer to the Sumerian-influenced worship of serpents and dragon-like creatures which pervaded the Canaanite people before the Israelites entered that region.''
On what grounds do we make these bold assertions about Canaanite religion? Hmm? Are there any academic sources we could cite, perhaps? Mirv/—No-OneUser talk:Mirv/ ''Jones'' Emailuser/Mirv/(m) 21:52, 24 Oct 2004
I don't know which book of Yashar was referred to; the original article just said "the Book of Jasher". If I had to guess, I'd say Pseudo-Jasher. But I haven't read either one. I didn't add the stuff on Canaanites, but I couldn't vouch for them _not_ ever being referred to as serpents, or for them not worshipping serpents. -Ben Standeven
crazed hacking apart of article
removing large portions of an article without concensus in talk is not acceptable. It is also pointless, since much of it will be replaced. Of course the article is far from perfect, but deleting half the page isn't helping anything. Sam Spade/Sam http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit§ion=new '''Spade''' 22:00, 24 Oct 2004
:I explained my deletions in the edit summaries. Which of them do you dispute? Mirv/—No-OneUser talk:Mirv/ ''Jones'' Emailuser/Mirv/(m) 22:05, 24 Oct 2004
I dispute mass deletions of text w/o a prior history of having communicated in talk. Sam Spade/Sam http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit§ion=new '''Spade''' 22:09, 24 Oct 2004
:OK, the byzantium bit is an improvement. As for the rest of the mess you've been making of things here, isn't there a general understanding on the wiki that removed text is to be replaced w improved text? Also, you need to have been discussing these matters here in talk for some time before demanding references and deleting huge portions of the article. People need time to respond. Check the edit history, these arn't my contributions your deleting. Sam Spade/Sam http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit§ion=new '''Spade''' 22:16, 24 Oct 2004
:''I dispute mass deletions of text w/o a prior history of having communicated in talk.'' — That's nice; I dispute putting unsourced, irrelevant loads of bullshit into articles. However, though you didn't ask nicely, I'll explain:
:'''http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Reptilian_humanoid&diff=6834276&oldid=6833809''':
Throughout the world, in apparently unconnected societies, the belief pervades that a Reptilian race lives beneath the Earth and interacts with the surface.
:This much is true and could be restored.
In most cases another race, tall and "Nordic" in appearance, is described. These were the "Elves" of European lore.
:They appear only in some Germanic folklore and mythology (which lacks reptoids, note), and this description isn't entirely accurate; see Elf. In any case it's irrelevant.
The Reptilians were often described as having a caste hierarchy, in which the highest caste was winged.
:Weasel passive. Who describes them this way?
This correlates with information from current abductees, contactees and former government employees who have disclosed information regarding alien interaction with Earth-governments.
:This is unsourced conspiroid bullshit.
Many ancient peoples worshipped a serpent-God(dess) called El or Hel, which was considered the God-Goddess of the Underworld, the Moon, and Venus.
:What nonsense. See El (god) and Hel (goddess). Hel was the Norse goddess of the underworld, true, but not a reptilian AFAIK.
These three locations (underground, the Moon, and Venus) are all described by abductees, former covert government employees, and the like, as being major bases for a reptilian species from the Draco star system who have been involved with this planet for at least two million years.
:More unsourced conspiroid BS.
:'''http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Reptilian_humanoid&diff=6834644&oldid=6834300'''
See http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Reptilian_humanoid&diff=6834300&oldid=6834276. The whole thing is nonsensical. Mirv/—No-OneUser talk:Mirv/ ''Jones'' Emailuser/Mirv/(m) 22:24, 24 Oct 2004
:http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Reptilian_humanoid&diff=6834875&oldid=6834703 everything from "A Nordic race. . ." onward:
None of this explains how it is in any way relevant to the subject of the article; it's nothing more than an unsourced collection of vague rumors and "legends" from Indian history. Mirv/—No-OneUser talk:Mirv/ ''Jones'' Emailuser/Mirv/(m) 22:24, 24 Oct 2004
As for this:
:''isn't there a general understanding on the wiki that removed text is to be replaced w improved text?''
Unsourced nonsense can be removed to talk for improvement at any time. Generally the author (and I understand that you didn't write much or any of this) is expected to be able to provide references for what he writes; if someone else wants to put the text back, they should be able to come up with references for it.
:''Also, you need to have been discussing these matters here in talk for some time before demanding references and deleting huge portions of the article.''
Since when? I saw stuff that was bogus; I removed stuff that was bogus; I asked for sources and references. If you want to put it back you are welcome to take responsibility for it; that includes citing sources and providing references. Mirv/—No-OneUser talk:Mirv/ ''Jones'' Emailuser/Mirv/(m) 22:24, 24 Oct 2004
Pythagoras
Since you're so intent on having the references to Pythagoras in the article, I expect you can provide references for all of this. What were these "events relating to serpents", who reported them, and what does the Python have to do with all this? I also recommend reading the comments by Muriel Gottrop and The Anome on the Talk:Reptilian humanoid/Archive/archive. Mirv/—No-OneUser talk:Mirv/ ''Jones'' Emailuser/Mirv/(m) 22:26, 24 Oct 2004
Spacecraft
:''Ancient Sanscrit texts also refer to spacecraft and aircraft called Vimana. Nuclear debris has been found in regions said to be destroyed by 'the gods' in Kashmir and other locations throughout the Indian peninsula.''
Since you're also intent on reinserting this, I suppose you can a: provide a reference and b: explain what on earth this has to do with the topic of the article, i.e. reptilian humanoids. Its relevance is not at all apparent to the average reader. Mirv/—No-OneUser talk:Mirv/ ''Jones'' Emailuser/Mirv/(m) 22:28, 24 Oct 2004
Clean the ancient part
I guess that a great deal of the ancient references are fabricated or stretched.
Can you mark clearly what parts we are sure that some ancient people believe?
:I actually don't know much about this aspect, my knowledge is mainly in regards to Nazi mysticism concepts of Hitler riding in UFO's w reptiloids under the antartic. My objections were to mirv removing 1/2 the article before others could come up w their facts. If anyone wants references as to the whole "underground/moonbase nazi ufo's w reptiloid friends" aspect, I can cite plenty of books for that. Sam Spade/Sam http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit§ion=new '''Spade''' 14:37, 25 Oct 2004
::Yes, but most of those books cite the same source. Anyhoo, Mirv has been doing a pretty good job maintaining this page in the wake of Khranus/Khranus' edits. User:Viriditas/Viriditas 20:40, 16 Nov 2004
Neofacism
Just out of curiosity, why are David Icke's views considered newfacist? While I certainly don't believe what he says, I haven't seen any facist agenda. User:66.90.158.156/66.90.158.156
: Have a look at his book, "And the Truth Shall Set You Free". It's a 491 page conspiratorial rant in defense of the "veracity" of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Icke has also been associated with neofascist groups and people (Ernst Zundel), and blames society's problems on an alleged Jewish conspiracy. This is standard, neofascist party line. Sadly, Icke attempted to co-opt the Green party before people caught on to what he was really about. Viriditas/Viriditas / User_talk:Viriditas/Talk 19:45, 30 Jan 2005
posted @ 5:44 PM
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